Jeff Nichols (00:46.1)

Hello everyone. Welcome to Fellowship 1:7. We’re wrapping up our Partners with Purpose series today, and today I am so excited. We have a very special guest joining us. Ken Ham is the founder of Answers in Genesis, the Creation Museum and the world-renowned Ark Encounter. And he’s going to talk with us today about apologetics and ministry and the partnership that we have between Child Avengers and Fellowship and Answers in Genesis.

and sharing the gospel with the next generation. Ken, thank you so much for being here today. We’re honored to have you.

Ken Ham (01:24.32)
Hey, thank you. It’s my pleasure. I’d love to speak with you and love to talk about raising up the next generations.

Jeff Nichols (01:31.7)
That’s what we’re all about. Ken, I’m interested, looking back at your story, what got you started along this line? You have a very interesting story, you have an amazing ministry, but can you share with our listeners how you first felt called into the apologetics arena and what ultimately led you to found the Answers in Genesis movement?

Ken Ham (01:55.502)
Well, you know, really, this is so fitting, talking with Child Evangelism Fellowship, because I really need to start back when I was born into a Christian home with parents who love God’s Word. I was born in a pagan country in Australia, less than 1 % of probably Christians. But I had a father who would never knowingly compromise God’s Word, who actually, when his father died when he was 16,

He said that he then turned to the words of his heavenly father and just devoured them and read them over and over again. And a mother who was brought up to stand on God’s word. And so he raised us as children to stand uncompromisingly on God’s word. My father also taught us to defend the Christian faith, not just what the Bible said, but how to defend the Christian faith against the liberal attacks of our day. And I saw my father stand up against

Jeff Nichols (02:29.417)
Wow.

Ken Ham (02:51.534)
liberal theology that was permeating churches and so on in Australia. And so the first thing I like to say is, you know, they did what the Bible said in regard to raising up a godly generation, raising up their own children. And in fact, it was because of one of the missionary programs that they sponsored and organized in one of the country towns we lived in, that the missionary challenges for those

who wanted to go wherever God wanted them to go and do whatever he wanted them to do and who commit their lives to the Lord Jesus Christ. And so I signed that piece of paper when I was 10 years old to say, trusted, yep, 10 years old, I trusted Christ for salvation and I wanted to go wherever God wanted me to go and do whatever he wanted me to do. so then, you know, I went to high school because I was taught evolution.

Jeff Nichols (03:28.768)
10 years old. 10.

Ken Ham (03:42.158)
in high school. My parents didn’t have the scientific answers at that stage. My father always had the biblical answers. You know, you can’t compromise Genesis. It’s foundational to everything. And that had a big impact on me that he would never compromise God’s word. And then went through university and same sort of issues. And then in 1974, my final year of university, someone gave me a couple of little books, one particular book.

that talked about no death before sin and so fossils couldn’t have been formed millions of years before man sinned. And I thought, you know, that makes sense because the fossil record is a record of death and disease like cancer in bones and so on. You can’t have that before sin. Then in 1975, I became a science teacher and the first class in a country high school that I taught in public school, the students said, so we saw your name on the list to be the Christian teacher to lead the Christian group.

But how can you be a Christian when we know the Bible’s not true? I said, how do know the Bible’s not true? Because of what our textbooks teach about evolution and millions of years. And then one of the students piped up and said, no, I couldn’t get the animals on the ark, could he? And so right then I realized that these young people wouldn’t even listen to the claims of the Bible because they thought that science has proved it wasn’t true. And I recognized how important it was to get the right information to them. And so I started teaching them.

Jeff Nichols (04:50.143)
Yeah.

Ken Ham (05:06.606)
And that year I was asked by the pastor of our church to speak in church. And I gave my first ever creation apologetics talk back in 1975. So this year, 2025, is the 50th anniversary of giving a talk on creation apologetics. And then when I took my students to museums, all from an atheistic perspective, and I cried out and said, Lord, why can’t we have a creation museum? And it’s interesting that in 1977,

we started a ministry in our home in Australia. And then in 1980, I and a friend of mine who was one of the board members for our ministry, we stood in a piece of property and prayed that God would let us build a creation museum. And God answered that prayer in Kentucky in America in 2007. So God’s ways are not our ways, his thoughts, not our thoughts. But you know, when you look at it,

Jeff Nichols (05:52.67)
Hahaha

Ken Ham (06:00.59)
Parents raising up their children to stand uncompromising on God’s word and be prepared to defend the Christian faith and then being burdened by young people being led astray by the false teachings of our age and then not having a place to take them to where they could learn the truth. That’s all a part of how God used me to prepare me for a ministry he called us to build and eventually the Answers in Genesis ministry and the Creation Museum opened in

2007 and then the Ark encounter opened in 2016 the two leading Christian themed attractions in the world so there’s a very brief summary but you know what it all involves raising up godly generations

Jeff Nichols (06:44.478)
That’s right. I think it’s so interesting that your story began in what you considered a non-Christian country of 1 % of people there, that that probably directly influenced the fact that you were so caught off guard by the liberal theology and the state of the schools that you were growing up in,

Ken Ham (06:52.046)
Mm-hmm.

Ken Ham (07:06.062)
Correct. And you know, the Lord used all that as a part of my training to bring me into this ministry today. And it’s interesting, you know, when you think about God’s call on your life, you look back and God takes you through various experiences in life. You know, the parents that he entrusted to look after you and the experiences from them, their training, and then throughout life, all the different things that happen. I look back and I see how God was using all of that.

to prepare me, to take me out of being a teacher in the public schools to being a teacher of God’s word to generations around the world.

Jeff Nichols (07:44.907)
That’s amazing. And it all started when you were 10 years old. God was calling you, and I think He’s still calling you. That’s amazing thing about what we do in Child Evangelism Fellowship. We’re recognizing that 414 window, as they call it, you know, that sensitive time between the age of 4 and 14 years old when young people’s hearts are sensitive, their minds are open, their minds are curious.

and we need to give them the information that God is drawing them to themselves and God loves them, God died for them, God wants to forgive their sin. So we have a huge partnership in our ministries and wanting that to be the foundation of everything that we do, right?

Ken Ham (08:20.638)
Well, know what’s interesting, Jeff, is that after I was married, in fact, this year, December this year, December 30th, actually, my wife and I will be married 53 years. But when after we were married, a few years after we married, we talking and I found out something I didn’t even realise. When she was about the same age, about 10, 11 years old, she was going to Sunday school. She wasn’t brought up in a Christian home like me.

Jeff Nichols (08:31.906)
wow.

Ken Ham (08:49.41)
but her mother sent her to Sunday school. And in Sunday school, she heard the gospel. That was in the days when they used flannel graph. You know what flannel graph is? Are you old enough to know what flannel graph is? And so they were using the flannel graph board where they stick these little felt pictures and things on there and taught the gospel. And she said that she heard the gospel and she said, Lord, if you did that for me, you died on the cross for me.

Jeff Nichols (08:57.425)
yes, yeah. Absolutely.

Ken Ham (09:18.574)
I want to go wherever you want me to go and do whatever you want me to do. And she made the same commitment I did and then God brought us together in a miraculous way. And then, you know, 53 years ago, we were married and the Lord has trusted us with five children and we’ve raised them to stand on God’s word and to be able to defend the Christian faith and four of them are married and.

We have 18 grandchildren and two great grandchildren. And that spiritual legacy continues to be passed on, generation after generation, which is what we need to see and what should happen. But it’s not happening in a lot of instances.

Jeff Nichols (09:59.773)
Right, right. So 50 years of ministry now in Answers in Genesis, and God has just done amazing things for you all around this world. How would you describe the mission that God has given to Answers in Genesis today? It’s a crazy world that we’re living in, a chaotic world, a very divisive world that we’re living in today. What would you describe as the mission that you have today moving forward?

Ken Ham (10:27.438)
Well, you know, it’s interesting when the secular media have asked me, you know, they come to the Ark or the museum and I’ve been interviewed by so many in the secular media and they’ve often said to me, what is your main message? What are you trying to do? I said, it’s very simple. The history in the Bible is true and the gospel message based in that history is true. We live at a time when God’s word has come under attack by the secular world. Supposedly science has disproved God’s word. It’s just a book of mythology. You can’t trust it.

Jeff Nichols (10:48.01)
Hmm.

Ken Ham (10:57.59)
And so a big emphasis of answers in Genesis through the attractions is to help the Bible come alive so people can understand it in a special way, but not only that, to help them understand that this is true, that this is God’s history book for us, and this is God’s word. It is true. But more than that, that the gospel message, the message about our problem called sin and the solution in Jesus is based in that real history.

And so for us, biblical authority and the gospel, they’re the two major emphases. Now, as we do that, we’re also dealing with all the social issues of the age, because you think of where we’re at. mean, the culture has certainly changed since, you know, we first had children in Australia and then first even came to America. The last few years, we’ve seen catastrophic change. Well, how do you deal with issues of gay marriage and transgender and abortion and all these horrible things that are happening in our culture? Well,

Genesis 1 to 11 is actually foundational for the rest of the Bible, for all of our doctrine, for our Christian worldview. It’s a foundation for everything. It’s a foundation for marriage, why we wear clothes, the foundation for gender, the foundation for understanding life and that we’re made in the image of God right from fertilization. It’s a foundation for everything. So part of our mission is to help raise up generations who have that right foundation, who know what they believe, know why they believe what they do.

and are equipped with answers, apologetics, 1 Peter 3.15, always be prepared to give a defense or answer as you defend the Christian faith. And so we want to help raise up generations who know God’s word, know what they believe, know why they believe what they do about marriage, about gender, about anything, which starts with Genesis 1 to 11, and also are equipped with those answers.

Jeff Nichols (12:36.522)
Mm-hmm.

Ken Ham (12:54.254)
as I was, my father quit me with answers when I was a child. You know, we need to remember, Hitler said, he who owns the youth owns the future. And if you, if the world captures a generation, it’s very hard to get it back because of our sin nature, right? Because we’re, we’re, we’re already biased against God. We’re already negative in that sense. And so we want to do our best to raise up godly generation. Sadly,

Jeff Nichols (13:02.238)
That’s right.

Jeff Nichols (13:10.496)
That’s right.

Ken Ham (13:23.16)
The devil has captured so many of the younger generations and we need an emphasis on raising up godly generations, which is why we love the work of Child Evangelism Fellowship, because that’s what you’re all about and you take the same stand we do on scripture starting with Genesis. Just recently, in fact, I spoke at a couple of fundraising events for two different CEF groups in Peoria, one in Benton, one in, sorry, in Illinois, one in Peoria, one in Benton, Illinois.

Jeff Nichols (13:37.93)
That’s right.

Jeff Nichols (13:50.687)
Mm-hmm.

Ken Ham (13:51.311)
And I’ve spoken at one of the international conferences as well. I’ve come to the Arc encounter. do some conferences there with you and we’ve spoken on occasions. And of course we have lots of children’s literature and curricula. And so it’s great to be able to work with others who are like-minded, have specialist ministries, but to help each other. I believe God smiles on that. And I believe he blesses that.

Jeff Nichols (13:54.528)
That’s right.

Jeff Nichols (14:18.142)
Yeah, we’re very complimentary of each other. We’re not doing the exact same ministry, but our ministries definitely complement each other. And I like the way that you said it, Ken, that because we take the Bible seriously and we use that as the foundation of everything that we do in both of our ministries. I want to take you back to what I consider seems like to be a pivotal time.

was that 2014 debate with Bill Nye. I still remember that debate, Ken, and how important that was. It seems like so much of your ministry focus and direction just catapulted forward at that time. Can you talk a little bit about that and how that moment helped shape the Ministry of Answers and Genesis?

Ken Ham (15:03.63)
Well, you know, that is interesting. It was a pivotal event in many ways. really, exponentially exploded our ministry around the world. And it’s fascinating up to this date, we would say a minimum of 25 million people have watched that debate. And we think it was a lot more because at the time there are a few million, I think it seven or 8 million that watched it live.

But we found out there were public school groups, there were church groups, there were university groups, there were lots of other groups. Who knows how many millions have really watched it, minimum 25 million people. And I must admit, I don’t think there’s a week that goes by where I don’t meet somebody who said, I saw the debate with Bill and I. Not only do I meet people who saw it live, but now I’m meeting a generation of young people who…

now say because you think that debate was in 2014. So that was 11 years ago. So I’m meeting young people who are teenagers saying, we just watched the debate with Bill Nye. And then I did a second debate after the after the arc opened, and I took him through the arc for two hours. But you know, it was interesting. It’s interesting. It’s just fascinating to go back and realize that’s something God did. I know that because I didn’t try to debate Bill Nye. In fact,

Jeff Nichols (16:09.614)
Hahaha

Ken Ham (16:28.04)
Usually these days, secular humanists don’t want to debate Christians because they don’t want to give them a platform. In fact, Bill and I got roasted by his peers for even debating me because you’re giving Ken Ham a platform out there. You shouldn’t allow him that platform. And anyway, by debating him, you’re saying the topic’s worth your debate. It is not because evolution’s fact and the Bible’s not true. so he really was roasted by his peers.

for debating me. But what happened was an Associated Press reporter came and interviewed me in my office and he said, oh, by the way, I asked Bill Nye if he’d be prepared to debate you. And he said, yes, would you debate him? And I looked at my colleague, Mark Loy, who was one of the founders who was with me at that time. And Mark said, of course you will. And I said, okay. So I never set out to do that. And I’ll tell you, many stumbling blocks.

We’re in the way and even right up until the last minute, it was even doubtful that a debate would go ahead. It’s a whole story to that, by the way. But God orchestrated that and just came out of the blue, never even expected anything like that. It’s interesting how God’s ways are not our ways, his thoughts not our thoughts. He does things in the most unexpected way at times. And then when I did that debate, millions watched it live. It was the top trending topic on Twitter.

which is now called X and on Facebook and so on. It was incredible and it created interest in the ministry around the world. I mean, I’ve even been walking through airports and had someone run up to me, aren’t you the guy that abated Bill Nye? I watched that live. Wow, thank you. And you know, what it really helped people do, because I didn’t, did a couple of things in the debate that were very important. One was to help people understand it is not science versus the Bible.

And to help them understand, there’s observational science that builds technology. But when you’re talking about origins, that’s historical science. We can all agree on observational science, but not historical science. So it’s not science versus the Bible, right? It’s man’s historical science versus God’s historical science when you’re talking about origins. And that you can divide science into those two types. The science that builds technology and then your knowledge about origins, which is very different. That’s them.

Ken Ham (18:51.128)
based on beliefs. And I wanted to make sure the gospel was presented very clearly. But I set out to really help people understand how to think, not just what to think. And for instance, one of the emphasis that I brought was everybody has the same evidence. Evidence is not the issue. It’s how you interpret the evidence and how you interpret the evidence depends upon your starting point of God’s word or man’s word. And you know, I’ve had many people over the years tell me they were skeptics or even atheists.

And that debate challenged them. I remember meeting a young man in Hollywood. Actually, I was at a church in Hollywood, California, and he was helping me carry some books from the car into the church because I was speaking. And he said, by the way, I was an atheist and I watched the Bill Nye debate. And he said, that really challenged me. And I thought about that and started to question all my beliefs. And then and then I heard an evangelist preach the gospel on radio as is in my car.

And he said, I committed my life to the Lord, but the Bill Nye debate God used as the foundation.

Jeff Nichols (19:50.215)
Yeah.

Jeff Nichols (19:55.701)
amazing. So much has happened in the last 10 to 15 years around the apologetics sphere. I think you have been a big part of that. You’ve been a big motivator in that and bringing this to the forefront of Christian thought and discussion.

What is your view about where we stand today? How are you feeling about how the church is doing in the area of apologetics? And if you could bring it down to the kids level also and how we’re preparing the next generation, the younger generation to answer those questions too.

Ken Ham (20:30.798)
Well, you know, it’s interesting, if you go back many years, most people hadn’t heard of the word apologetics, even in our churches. And in fact, as I think back to my own upbringing, I’d never heard of that word. What my father really did was teach us apologetics, but I didn’t realize that that’s what it was. And I think we’ve helped popularize that term. And it’s based on 1 Peter 3.15, always be prepared to give a defense or answer for what you believe.

And the word defense or answer comes from the Greek word apologia, from which we get a word apologetics. And in 2009, we published a book called Already Gone, which I authored, actually co-authored with our researcher. And we had our researcher at the time from America’s research group, behavioral research group, to go and research in churches why so many young people were leaving the church.

George Bana, a researcher in America, had provided statistics about two-thirds of young people leaving the church by the time they reach college age, very few returning. So we set out to do research as to why. And one of the things that we found out, which, you know, I sort of knew this because of my experience in speaking in churches to young people, children’s groups and all the rest of it, was that they weren’t taught how to answer.

questions, they weren’t taught how to defend the Christian faith. Most churches were not teaching apologetics. And so because of that, that book had a big impact on a lot of pastors. A lot of pastors told me when we published that book, they realized, wow, we’re not teaching apologetics. And so many more churches now started to teach apologetics. And then we provided a Sunday school curriculum that has an emphasis of an apologetics, biblical worldview.

It’s chronological. We also produce a vacation Bible school program. Our vacation Bible school program is 18 years old now. And last year, 15,000 churches use it, impacting a million children. And we’ve had pastors tell us they’ve never seen such a response to the gospel from a VBS before. And because our VBS involves apologetics, worldview, we have science experiments. It’s not the usual Bible story.

Jeff Nichols (22:46.922)
Yes.

Ken Ham (22:50.606)
material. And that’s been the problem. lot of churches teach what you call Bible stories. Jonah, the great fish, Jesus is on the cross, Noah in the ark. Now, don’t get me wrong, they’re real events and they’re true, but they’re not teaching them true biblical worldview based on God’s word, teaching them doctrine, teaching them meaty stuff, and then teaching them apologetics, how to defend the Christian faith. So that’s what we are known for, and I believe it’s had an incredible impact.

Jeff Nichols (22:55.114)
That’s right.

Ken Ham (23:19.566)
on the younger generations and more and more churches and other organizations are using our material as does CEF and we love to work together to be able to raise up godly generations who know what they believe, why and can defend the Christian faith.

Jeff Nichols (23:38.527)
Yeah, and that’s why this partnership is so critical at this stage in time. So important that we’re that we’re partnering like this together. I’ve taught your answers in Genesis VVS and it is fantastic. I love that material, but children today are facing challenges just just that are unheard of. You know from previous generations, it seems like the challenges that 18 year olds were facing a generation ago. 8 year olds are facing now.

And how important do you consider this partnership that we have between Answers in Genesis and CEF at this critical time in history with all the challenges that our children are facing today?

Ken Ham (24:19.8)
Well, it is critical. You you’re right. I grew up in a whole different culture to what our grandchildren are growing up in. And my wife has said to me in number of occasions, I fear for our grandchildren growing up in this culture. It is not the same culture. It’s a very wicked culture. It’s almost like Sodom and Gomorrah, so to speak. And, you know, I just saw a statistic come out that over 40 % of children’s programs on Netflix now push LGBTQ.

And you have so many families who don’t even check what their kid’s watching. it’s a children’s program. It’ll be fine. No, no, no. They’re really pushing the LGBT worldview with all of these children. And so we need to work together because when you look at what’s happening in our culture and the forces of evil and how secularized it’s become and how they’re after our children and to capture our children.

Jeff Nichols (24:56.532)
Right.

Ken Ham (25:18.958)
for the devil really, those of us who stand on God’s Word and are prepared to prepare these children and teach them correctly, we need to work together because it’s much more effective when we can work together, help each other. As you said, we have complementary ministries. We’re different ministries. We’re the same in regard to our stand on Scripture, but different in regard to how we do things. And God raises up different organizations

with different people, with different emphases to be able to take the same message to people out there. And we need to be raising up a godly generation because what’s going to become of the future in America, for instance, you know, if, if when you lose that generation, look at what happened when Joshua crossed the Jordan river and they built a memorial at 12 stones. And God said to tell them when, the children

to come ask, what do these stones mean? Don’t you forget to tell them. And unfortunately, they didn’t teach them like they should have. And then we read once all those elders that live with Joshua, that a generation died and Joshua died, it says the next generation rose up who worship Baal. They lost it in one generation. It only takes one generation to lose what you have, to lose a culture. We need to do all we can, work together as best we can.

Jeff Nichols (26:19.146)
That’s right.

Jeff Nichols (26:22.816)
That’s right.

Ken Ham (26:44.226)
to help raise up a generation of godly offspring to continue to pass that spiritual legacy on.

Jeff Nichols (26:50.634)
That’s a great encouragement to parents and all of those CF workers and volunteers and church partners that we have out there that are trying to reach this next generation for him. Building on a biblical worldview, got to no matter how society changes, we keep coming back to the Bible and that biblical worldview, right Ken?

Ken Ham (27:09.94)
Absolutely. mean, you know, we need to understand something. This is not just a book you add to your thinking. It’s not just a book of spiritual things and moral things and relationships. It’s God’s book of history to us. It’s a revelation from God who knows everything. And it is the foundation to build our worldview in every area. We’ve got to raise up children who understand you start here. You don’t take ideas to the Bible. You start from the Bible.

to build your worldview.

Jeff Nichols (27:41.793)
That’s exactly right. We love our partnership with Answers in Genesis, Ken. I can’t tell you how much we appreciate you personally and what your ministry and organization is doing and partnering with Child Evangelism Fellowship in big and small ways, going to those events like you did there in Illinois. I heard great reviews and amazing comments about your time there in Illinois, so thank you so much for doing that. But thank you for what Answers in Genesis is doing. And as you’re moving ahead and leading this ministry, what can I

listeners be praying for you and answer Genesis about as you move forward right now.

Ken Ham (28:18.414)
Well, know, my heart has always been, well, you know, of the sad things is I think we live in a time where we have a very lukewarm church and so many churches have not been standing on God’s word like they should. And so my heart is to be able to impact even more and more churches, because think of all the children that go to Sunday school in those churches. And so many of them have compromised God’s word in Genesis. And we’re losing

Jeff Nichols (28:40.062)
Mm-hmm.

Ken Ham (28:46.87)
generations from the church. Did you know if you go back to the 1700s, 70 to 80 % of people went to church. If you come up to the present, less than 5 % generation Z go to church. And so we’ve lost generations from the church. My prayer is that we can get those generations back into the church, but we also have to get a church that’ll stand up and be bowled for God’s word as well. And because churches, sadly,

haven’t been doing what they should be doing. I believe that’s why God raises up organizations like CEF, like Answers and Genesis, to really do what the church should be doing. So part of our ministry is to the church. And so I pray that God would allow us to impact the church even more.

Jeff Nichols (29:21.354)
That’s right.

Jeff Nichols (29:31.585)
Thank you, Ken. Thank you for what you’re doing. Thank you for joining us today on Fellowship 17. It’s been a great conversation and a joy and a pleasure to walk through these different conversations with you today. We’ll be taking a short break, listeners, for the holidays, but we’ll be back after the first of the year with more Fellowship 17 resources and episodes to help you.

Ken Ham (30:17.762)
Hey, our pleasure. I’m sure we talk to you again sometime. Okay. Thanks. Bye bye.

Jeff Nichols (30:20.416)
All right. Thank you. Bye bye.